The Town Hall Archives

Gandalf · Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:35 pm Post subject: France and Iraq

Recently I recieved an e-mail entitled "boycott France!". I actually thought it would be very interesting to read so I started reading it. Basically all it was was a list of companies that are based in France and why we shouldn't buy from them anymore. All fine and dandy right? I was really upset that a Christian friend of mine sent this to me because the whole attitude of the e-mail was very hateful toward the French people. I've also happened to hear Neil Bortz (NOT by choice) and I've noticed the same attitude. The attitude is further reflected in the complete and total waste of federal tax dollars that our ever-so-bright congress used to change the name of "french fries" to "freedom fries" at all governmental cafeterias. You've probably heard about it in the news: people dumping French wine down the gutter, boycotting French restaurants (owned by Americans mind), making racist jokes about the French populous, and trying to delete every word with French roots from our language.

Are these attitudes right for Christians to have? I don't believe they are. The Bible says that we are supposed to "love your enemies and pray for those who hate you and use you". I can't help feeling that the people that spout these sorts of comments are not loving the French. It's the same attitude America had right after 9/11 toward Arabs. And it's wrong! We can hate the French culture, we can hate French politics, we can even hate the French government, but we must remember to love the French populous. It's not easy and perhaps they don't deserve it, but then again, none of us do.

And as far as boycotting American restaurants that serve French food, that only hurts the American economy. It's a total waste of money (and therfore poor stewardship) to re-name French Fries or French bread, or anything else French, and it's down right stupid to stop using words like "fiance", "buret", etc. simply because they have French roots. Basically what I'm saying is this: Boycott the French government if you must, but leave it at that, anything more is just plain absurd.

Jared · Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:29 pm Post subject:

Hmm... I agree with you on some points you make and disagree on others.

First off, French jokes are not "racist." France is a country, not a race. And not much of a country at that. And I've never been of the opinion that it's wrong to joke concerning such things... we can joke about people in America. So why can't we joke about others?

And the French really do deserve it. You say love your enemies -- and you're right. Of course, the French aren't truly an enemy. They just act like one. But, even though we are supposed to love them as people no less deserving of God's grace than ourselves, is a little bashing banned? The French have basically declared that their love for Saddam and for his oil exceeds right... no matter what. At this point, they could look at the rubble of San Fransisco after a nuclear attack initiated by Saddam and still call for more inspections. This war's about oil, they say. Actually, the desire NOT TO GO to war is...

France wants cheap oil. To them, that's far more important than whether or not Americans live. Or whether Iraqis have freedom. Or whether Israel is safe... or Kuwait, for that matter. The lives of a quarter billion people just pale in comparison to cheap oil, apparently. And a desire to make sure we don't see the "Made in France" stickers on Iraqi military assets.

They deserve sharp criticism... and ridicule.

Is "Freedom Fries" going to change anything? No. But it's a show of solidarity with our country and a display of disgust for a country that puts its economic interests and idiotic policies above human life and what is right.

You write, "We can hate the French culture, we can hate French politics, we can even hate the French government, but we must remember to love the French populous."

Populous, huh? Sounds so... communistic. Right, commrade? ;)

Okay, seriously, I generally agree with you here. The French culture is sort of silly and definitely "sophisticated" in a rather absurd sense. Perfect for making jokes about. French politics are immoral. We complain about life here - and we should... our political leaders have some major problems. But nothing like France. Chirac is just downright evil. Conniving. Friend of mass-murderers (Hussein, with whom he developed a person friendship in the 70s that still lasts today; Mugabe, the mass-murdering dictator that Chirac invites to stay at the French presidential home... and the list goes on.) And one hundred percent opportunistic.

When British tabloids, which regularly feature ultra-sensational fare, label him "The Worm," I don't wince. Sorry, but it just fits.

And finally on this matter, I think that the vast majority of Frenchmen (and women) are absolutely wrong on the issue of war on Iraq. And yes, I'll criticize them for it... they deserve it just as much as people in our own country that think that way do. The difference? About 95 percent of the French prefer Saddam to Bush. That's stupid.

Are we supposed to love them as people? Absolutely. Pray for their salvation, just as we would any other people? Definitely. Treat them with kindness when we meet them? Of course.

Can we still think that they're crazy?

I think so.

Also, I really haven't noticed any attempt to take words of French origin out of our language. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just haven't noticed this going on.

As for dumping out French wine, well... hopefully, none of us here have any wine to dump out! These protests don't really mean much: dumping out already-purchased wine doesn't hurt French companies. Refusing to buy it any more does... but I'm angry at the French government, not companies that happen to be based in France.

I'm not interested in boycotting French products. To me, that's silly. But I do hope that there are repurcussions.

I hope that the United States never again goes to the United Nations to ask for permission for anything. I hope that France is severely rebuked and kept from any position of importance in NATO. I hope that the French government learns that acting like they did has consequence.

And by the way, I'm not planning any trips to Paris in the near future... :)

(Okay, okay, I never was... who would want to go to socialist France and drink coffee in strange little outdoor cafes? Who would spend their vacation looking at old art? Or who would pick gondolas on canals instead of rafts on whitewater? Oh well... I guess I'm just not sophisticated enough!)

gimp · Guest

I agree we shouldn't hate anybody...........Christ didn't hate anyone.....no matter how they acted, or what they did.

Peace Out

-Gimp

Gandalf · Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 7:16 pm Post subject:

Jared, I think I can say I agree 99% with your post. I wasn't talking about the jokes concerning French culture, I'm talking about the jokes that people in my area at least are telling about the ethnic group of Frenchmen. They basically take jokes about "Negars" (sorry, I hate that word but I have to make a point) and turning them into "frog" jokes. It disgusts me to no end when people redicule one certain ethinic group for ANY reason. Like I said in my previous post, a lot of people are treating the French like the treated Arabs right after 9/11. It doesn't matter what country they are citizens of, if one is of French ancestory, they are insulted, slandered, and threatened. That's just wrong.

Now I live in a very "hick" part of the country so it may only be around here. I hope so. I guess my real reason for the post is that I was so mad I needed someplace to vent.

I do agree that France is not that much of a country, I have a VERY serious question and no one has been able to answer it: Why does France have veto power and Spain does not? France was defeated in both WW1 and WW2, I don't believe Spain was either time. On top of that, France was the reason the Legion of Nations crumbled. I actually think neither should have veto power since neither are worth worrying about. Great tourist places but nothing more...

rosie · Inquisitive Member Joined: 07 Jan 2003 Posts: 1197

Yeah, it must just be where you live cause I haven't noticed anything like that.

I agree that it is very fun and harmless to make jokes about them, but it's downright wrongwhen people start hating them. And I'm sure some people do. People start hating when they get scared, I think.

But seriously. Franch, and even English people to a degree, seem, ummm. So sophisticated it's silly? I can't really think of the word. They are just soo, so, so so. If that makes any sense.

Coralfish · Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 1:35 am Post subject:

I have never visited France, however I have made a trip to england, and it seems to me that there is a world of difference between the English and French culture. That seems to be especially apparent during the Iraq conflict. In that I am referring to how each country responded.

Did everyone listen to President Bush`s speech tonight at 9:15(CST)? Now is definitly the time to pray for America and it`s leaders.

Gandalf · Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 11:06 am Post subject:

I can't say as I've ever visited either (unfortunately) but there is a BIG culteral difference I think. France culture is completely debase with immorality, homosexuality, and every other disgusting type of sin flourishing. England isn't the most religious place in the world but it still has a basic foundation on Scripture. Makes a HUGE difference.

BTW, I was talking about this thing with some people the other day and we started asking "what's the difference in France, Spain and England" they were all super powers at the same time yet only England is worth blinking at now. Why? We put our collective heads together and came up with a theory: France and Spain rejected Protestantism (?) and remained Catholic and England rejected Catholocism and embraced Protestantism. What do you guys think?

Coralfish · Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:46 pm Post subject:

I really think that it had to do with the leadership. France's monarchs have never(and I am greatly generalizing here) been all that great. England, on the other hand experienced curtural growth during the reign of monarchs like Queen Elizabeth etc... I am sure history books can provide a more accurate account of the differences in leadership, but that is where I think that these countries varied.