 |
The Town Hall Archives
Ahh, the nostalgia.
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Gandalf
Cursor Always on Submit Button Member
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 876
Location: Desolation
|
 Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:22 pm Post subject: |
|
| GusDeHaan wrote: | | Gandalf wrote: | One is always considered a more developed thinker and more rounded Christian when one can read and understand the KJV translation. This doesn't imply that you should stick only with that translation, but don't be so hasty to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
|
That is a load of unbiblical nonsense... You just have the ability to read a language that has passed and is no longer common place - it doesn't make you well rounded, and your right, You aren't implying that one translation is the only way. I see that. But I can assure you I won't sit here and take that as correct thinking. Certain biblical translations for sure are much more correct than others, kjv nkjv niv nasb etc. but others are pathetic and are far from correct, the X treame bible, the amplified bible, the New living translation etc.
Ultimately it isn't right or wrong, it's about correct translation - and certain translations "have it" and others... don't. |
When one can read and understand the KJV, one can also understand a lot of Christian commentaries, writers, and theologians of the past. One can also be involved with theological discussions with those who believe that the KJV is the only inspired version of the Bible. So yes, being able to read and understand the KJV Bible does make one a more well-rounded Christian. Not more spiritual, but more well-rounded. In the same way that being able to read French, German, and Latin would also make one well-rounded.
Speaking of French and German, this has always been one major problem for me as far as the KJV only position goes. Some KJV only people believe that God inspired the translation and it is perfectly preserved in every meaning. I have to ask the question though, why is this belief only held by English speakers? One doesn't hear a lot of French or German (the two oldest translations outside of Latin, Greek, and Hebrew) people claiming that the KJV is the only inspired Word of God. They, I'm sure, have their own translation squabbles and arguments but wouldn't it be obvious to at least some Christians from every ure if the KJV is the only translation? Instead, it's a very small minority of English speakers who hold to this view. Before someone attacks me for saying that the majority has to be believe something to make it true, this is NOT what I said. I'm saying that if the KJV is the only inspired translation, there would at least be a few French, German, etc. Christians who believed that. I don't know of any.
And how can we, as English speakers, be so proud and arrogant as to think that we are the only ones who have received God's Word? I have seen this argument taken to the extend that all people must learn English in order to read the Bible. This is not only wrong but damnable. The entire point of the KJV was to put it into the hands of peasants and uneducated people so they could understand it for themselves.
Now though, people that cling to the KJV as the 'only inspired preserved Word of God' are doing the very thing that the translators of the KJV tried to prevent. I challenge you to take the KJV, place it in the hands of a 15-year old from the inner-city and ask them what John 3:16 or Acts 16:31 means. Chances are, he simply won't be able to tell you. You're preventing God's Word from reaching the hands of the undereducated, underpriveledged, and non-English speakers. But don't worry, you're in good company with the Roman Catholic Church of the 1500's. This stance is very similar to the one they held when they burned William Tyndale and other Bible translators.
As for the -like church thing, I would agree with Jeremy. If a church claims that they are the only way to Heaven, or that salvation is based on ANYTHING other than grace through faith, they would indeed qualify as a . Unfortunatly, this includes a lot of modern denominations as well as the ones we can all agree on (such as Jehovah's Witness and Morman).
I believe Amadeo, Jeremy, and Jonathan are agreeing about on the real issue. You're just arguing over terms and choices of phrasing. |
|
 |
Continental Admiral
Ornery Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 867
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:26 pm Post subject: |
|
| Gandalf wrote: | | Now though, people that cling to the KJV as the 'only inspired preserved Word of God' are doing the very thing that the translators of the KJV tried to prevent. I challenge you to take the KJV, place it in the hands of a 15-year old from the inner-city and ask them what John 3:16 or Acts 16:31 means. Chances are, he simply won't be able to tell you. You're preventing God's Word from reaching the hands of the undereducated, underpriveledged, and non-English speakers. But don't worry, you're in good company with the Roman Catholic Church of the 1500's. This stance is very similar to the one they held when they burned William Tyndale and other Bible translators. |
I don't believe anyone here claimed to be planning to burn people who read NIV translations. It isn't a safe measure to be comparing those who burn people on the stake, to those who disagree with or dislike a certain translation. |
|
|
Jeremy
The Great Debater
Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 448
Location: Arizona, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:30 pm Post subject: |
|
| Gandalf wrote: | | I have seen this argument taken to the extend that all people must learn English in order to read the Bible. |
My reply to that would be, I wonder if the Apostle Paul knew that?!  ;-)
I can't believe the fact that some people claim that the KJV is more inspired than the original. It's absolutely ludicrous.
| Gandalf wrote: | | As for the -like church thing, I would agree with Jeremy. If a church claims that they are the only way to Heaven, or that salvation is based on ANYTHING other than grace through faith, they would indeed qualify as a . Unfortunatly, this includes a lot of modern denominations as well as the ones we can all agree on (such as Jehovah's Witness and Morman). |
And I have to wonder about those even. Some "Christians" are now trying to defend Mormonism even, and saying it's not a cult. I suppose these would generally be the liberal types, though. It is interesting to look back over the last half a century or so, though, and see how the stances of evangelical Christians have changed in regard to certain groups (cults). The cults themselves have not become more Biblical--so it must mean that evangelical Christians have become less Biblical themselves and more "accepting" and "tolerant" of heretical and gospel-denying beliefs. It is sad.
Jeremy |
|
|
Gandalf
Cursor Always on Submit Button Member
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 876
Location: Desolation
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:17 pm Post subject: |
|
| Continental Admiral wrote: | | Gandalf wrote: | | Now though, people that cling to the KJV as the 'only inspired preserved Word of God' are doing the very thing that the translators of the KJV tried to prevent. I challenge you to take the KJV, place it in the hands of a 15-year old from the inner-city and ask them what John 3:16 or Acts 16:31 means. Chances are, he simply won't be able to tell you. You're preventing God's Word from reaching the hands of the undereducated, underpriveledged, and non-English speakers. But don't worry, you're in good company with the Roman Catholic Church of the 1500's. This stance is very similar to the one they held when they burned William Tyndale and other Bible translators. |
I don't believe anyone here claimed to be planning to burn people who read NIV translations. It isn't a safe measure to be comparing those who burn people on the stake, to those who disagree with or dislike a certain translation. |
Those that burned the translators were just more fanatical than their modern counterparts. The belief was the same: It is wrong to put the Word of God into the common, vulgar speech of normal men because one particular translation is the only inspiried, preserved, and authentic Word of God. I am NOT accusing anyone of wanting anyone else burned, mearly pointing out that the this particular belief is not new but those who held it before weren't exactly the best role-models for Christians. I'm only making comparisons where I see them.
And BTW, we're not talking about disagreeing with one particular translation, we're talking about insisting that one translation is the God-inspired and God-preserved Word of God. |
|
|
Amadeo
Senior Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 1207
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:01 am Post subject: |
|
| Arem852003 wrote: | | the only reason i said my church was like a cult is because they believe only the people of that church and denomanation will go to heaven. because my mom and i decided to go to a different church and denomanation they think we will die and go to hell, which is not the case. im as saved as i was the first day i asked Christ to save me. |
If your church really taught that only people in that denomination were saved, they were certainly wrong. |
|
|
Arem852003
Knows the Delta Quadrant inside out.
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 477
Location: Traveling through the DQ tring to make my way bach to Earth.
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:44 am Post subject: |
|
| Amadeo wrote: | | Arem852003 wrote: | | the only reason i said my church was like a cult is because they believe only the people of that church and denomanation will go to heaven. because my mom and i decided to go to a different church and denomanation they think we will die and go to hell, which is not the case. im as saved as i was the first day i asked Christ to save me. |
If your church really taught that only people in that denomination were saved, they were certainly wrong. |
yes.. u see why i have such a hard time with it? i lived hearing this for 6 years! i mean they say that all other Bibles are trash and wicked and all that... it's hard to let go of!
Arwen wrote:
| Quote: | And they're DEAD wrong about Casting Crowns. They are as real (and friendly) as they can be (I just saw them 2 weeks ago).
I wonder what the church would think if they visited a church where Mark Hall is a youth PASTOR. |
i know! i saw them last year at JFest and im going to the Steven Curtis Chapman concert tonight and they will be there...how can a song like Who Am I, have a bad message to it? |
|
|
Rachael Blackgaard
Thinks She Can Outsmart the Admins
Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 798
Location: XY coordinates Classified
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:59 pm Post subject: |
|
| Tianlet wrote: | | Whoah whoah whoah!!! "Cult-like church?" That's a strong term. Just what do you mean by "cult-like"? If you mean that they had standards and that those people who believed in them followed them, then it isn't cult-like. I'm sure people would consider my church and college cult-like, but that's their misunderstanding. Something was said about people "judging" you if you didn't hold to those standards. I'm guessing that if you (as a girl, if you are one) wore blue jeans to church one Sunday morning, people might take second looks, but did anyone come up to you and forbid you to wear them? Probably not. The Bible says "Judge not that ye be not judged," but usually people take that the wrong way. Of course we are supposed to determine what people are like by the way they dress, act, who their friends are, etc.; and it's going to happen, like it or not. Unless you were involved in an anti-Biblical, Christ-denying organization, you weren't in a cult, and I seriously doubt that people there would hate you for using a different Bible than they did. I personally use the KJV because it is the preserved Word of God, and it is no more difficult to read than any other version. However, do I "judge" you for not using it? Well, basically when I hear that you use another translation I think, "Oh, here's someone else that doesn't use the same translation." My best friend--who also happens to be my cousin--uses the NIV. I don't hate her, I love her. Do I judge her? Sort of. I think you are blowing this whole thing out of proportion. |
It might help if you actually read my entire post before jumping to conclusions. I referred to the church as cult-like because they believed that God's grace was not sufficient-- that every member of the congregation (unless they were part of the pastor's family, of course) had demons in them and no matter what we did or how much they were prayed for, the demons still had control of us. We could NEVER measure up to their expectations, and we were supposed to give the church 100% of our lives. My brother and I tried to make friends in the youth group, but we could never make it into 'the clique'. 'The clique' consisted of the pastor's sons and the older son's girlfriend.
They also believed that all but a few churches would miss out on the rapture and end times because they weren't spiritual enough. They told my mom not to worship because it might look flaky. My mom, a flaky worshipper? No way.
So we left the church in a very polite, low-profile way after talking to the pastor, and now no one in the church will talk to us. We've been completely shut off from our friends there (the few that we had). Now do you understand why I called it cult-like? |
|
|
Arwen
Really Likes Personalized Ranks
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 1193
Location: The Middle of Nowhere
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:46 pm Post subject: |
|
| Arem852003 wrote: | Arwen wrote:
| Quote: | And they're DEAD wrong about Casting Crowns. They are as real (and friendly) as they can be (I just saw them 2 weeks ago).
I wonder what the church would think if they visited a church where Mark Hall is a youth PASTOR. |
i know! i saw them last year at JFest and im going to the Steven Curtis Chapman concert tonight and they will be there...how can a song like Who Am I, have a bad message to it? |
I think the problem is, and I'm serious when say this, some people actually believe that to love God, you have to never have fun, and that anything enjoyable is from the devil.
Have a great time at the concert. You should be able to get Casting Crowns' autographs. I did. Could you PM me after? I tried, but it kept erroring. |
|
|
howdypardner
Junior Member
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 217
Location: Oklahoma
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:57 pm Post subject: |
|
| Arwen, I agree - it's such a shame to think that God, the Author and Giver of all True Joy, is a grump. I've heard one person say, "You're glad to be a Christian? Well, tell your face!" If we are in fellowship with God, His joy and light will be shown in us (and that includes in our faces). |
|
|
Arem852003
Knows the Delta Quadrant inside out.
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 477
Location: Traveling through the DQ tring to make my way bach to Earth.
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:33 pm Post subject: |
|
im still slightly confused.. but i believe ive made a good decision... im going to keep my KJV and just get another to help me study a little deeper..
the concert was great by the way. |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Search
Memberlist
Log in