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The Town Hall Archives Ahh, the nostalgia.
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| Harry Potter good-bad |
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| Total Votes : 39 |
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Ferder- Brickfilm Maker Extraordinaire

Joined: 14 Jan 2003 Posts: 1730 Location: BC, Canada
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:34 am Post subject: |
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HP also features Christian alegory. In the first book we hear about Harry's mother who sacrificed her life so that he could life. It is very clear that it is her blood that has saved Harry. You've probably heard that before though. There are some other examples in the books though. In the climax of the second book... *spoilers ahead*
Harry unshelfishly decides to risk his life to save his friend's sister. While fighting a basilisk (a creature which can kill you by looking into your eyes), a phoenix belonging to Proffessor Dumbledoore (the stories' adult 'good guy') flies down with a hat (the sorting hat for those who know the books) and pecks out the basilisk eyes. The creature can no longer kill by staring but is can still smell Harryand is just about to finish him off when a sword appears in the hat (a joke toward the old "pulling the bunny out of the hat" trick), which Harry grabs and uses to finish off the basilisk.
For those not familiar with fantasy, a basilisk is a giant snake. A phoenix is a bird which, once it dies, is reborn again in its ashes, and is sometimes used to represent Christ.
So basicly, the scene is an image of Jesus who has risen again to cripple Saten and arm us with the Sword of the Spirit. |
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Kanimoto Seasoned Veteran Member

Joined: 28 May 2004 Posts: 663 Location: Konohagakure (Hidden Leaf Village)
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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I was just about to post on that...  |
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Continental Admiral Ornery Member

Joined: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 867
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going to be objective here. As usual! ;)
Can a witch, in real life, be used as an allegory to Christ? |
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The Phantom Junior Member

Joined: 18 Feb 2005 Posts: 248
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Continental Admiral wrote: | I'm going to be objective here. As usual! ;)
Can a witch, in real life, be used as an allegory to Christ? | is harry real? and is he a witch? (lol) |
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Jonathan Dungeon Master

Joined: 21 Oct 2004 Posts: 2254 Location: Minnesota and/or North Dakota
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Continental Admiral wrote: | I'm going to be objective here. As usual! ;)
Can a witch, in real life, be used as an allegory to Christ? |
I'm not objective, but since you have a good point, I'll try my best.
| Ferder- wrote: | HP also features Christian alegory. In the first book we hear about Harry's mother who sacrificed her life so that he could life. It is very clear that it is her blood that has saved Harry. You've probably heard that before though. There are some other examples in the books though. In the climax of the second book... *spoilers ahead*
Harry unshelfishly decides to risk his life to save his friend's sister. While fighting a basilisk (a creature which can kill you by looking into your eyes), a phoenix belonging to Proffessor Dumbledoore (the stories' adult 'good guy') flies down with a hat (the sorting hat for those who know the books) and pecks out the basilisk eyes. The creature can no longer kill by staring but is can still smell Harryand is just about to finish him off when a sword appears in the hat (a joke toward the old "pulling the bunny out of the hat" trick), which Harry grabs and uses to finish off the basilisk.
For those not familiar with fantasy, a basilisk is a giant snake. A phoenix is a bird which, once it dies, is reborn again in its ashes, and is sometimes used to represent Christ.
So basicly, the scene is an image of Jesus who has risen again to cripple Saten and arm us with the Sword of the Spirit. |
If that's the only scene you can give that can be read as an allegory, (I'm failing at being objective) I must ask, does that excuse the rest of the books and their content? I agree with CA, can a witch/wizard be used as an allegory? I found more than enough objectionable content given in that article (link in my above post) to say, no.
-Jonathan |
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Continental Admiral Ornery Member

Joined: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 867
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| The Phantom wrote: | | Continental Admiral wrote: | I'm going to be objective here. As usual! ;)
Can a witch, in real life, be used as an allegory to Christ? | is harry real? and is he a witch? (lol) |
His character is a warlock, is he not?
My question pertains to the idea that some people don't like allegories and would be furious to find that a book, such as a Harry Potter, is being used as an allegory for Christ. Really, I don't care if he is real or not, I don't find it at all appropriate to be using a warlock of even a witch (Even if they DID do good deeds) as an allegory to Christ. It isn't even close.
EDIT: Not trying to be harsh here, but just happen to find the discussion interesting.  |
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Ferder- Brickfilm Maker Extraordinaire

Joined: 14 Jan 2003 Posts: 1730 Location: BC, Canada
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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If you are reffering to Harry's mother, then it should be said that under the circumstances it didn't really matter if she was a witch or a normal person. It was what she did that has the Christian application, not who she was.
You must understand that besides the names, Rowling doesn't think of her stories as being connected to real witchcraft (she said in one article that she doesn't belive in magic). She says that she uses the fantasictal as a vehicle for her stories. If you look at it that way, then it seem good that she is using her stories to present some good lessons and morals in the stories that Christians can agree with (though there are some, as pointed out by Gandalf, that aren't so good, but at least she's trying).
It's all a matter of disconnecting, as you read, the magic in the book from real life.
For instance, Veggie Tales uses talking vegetables to tell stories and teach lessons. I haven't heard too much controversy over where the veggitables get their powers to speak (or hold objects without hands). Are they getting power from devils or spirits? I think not. The writers are just using the imaginary as a vehicle for their stories.
Last edited by Ferder- on Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jonathan Dungeon Master

Joined: 21 Oct 2004 Posts: 2254 Location: Minnesota and/or North Dakota
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Ferder- wrote: | | If you are reffering to Harry's mother, then it should be said that under the circumstances it didn't really matter if she was a witch or a normal person. |
While I agree with the rest of your post, I don't agree here. I don't know if she was a witch, but for my arguement I'll assume so. What she did doesn't change who she is, no more than my doing 'good works' changes the fact that I'm a wretched sinner. Once again, this isn't so thought out, but I hold that it does matter.
If she was supposed to represent Christ, this makes it even more important. Is it right to represent Christ with someone who practices witchcraft?
-Jonathan |
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Ferder- Brickfilm Maker Extraordinaire

Joined: 14 Jan 2003 Posts: 1730 Location: BC, Canada
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| She is not supposed to represent Christ. Her particular actions, though, are supposed to represent something honerable (Christ-like). I've added some new stuff to my above post BTW. |
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Disco Dan Scholarly Artist

Joined: 27 Dec 2003 Posts: 3723 Location: In the land of Deep but not Profound...
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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A book character doing something honerable is nothing new.
This hardly does anything to boost my opinion of the book. |
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