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The Town Hall Archives
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Melka
Cursor Always on Submit Button Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 819
Location: In the Grip of Grace
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 Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:28 pm Post subject: Catholics Vs. Evangelicals |
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| Alright I got one for you. Do you think that what Catholics belive is wrong? Mormans? Jahova's Whitness? Evangelicals? Who is right who is wrong ( on different issues/ subjects?) This is for you guys, i am not going to get in the middle of this unless i have to tell somone to stop being a nickumpoop. |
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Jonathan
Dungeon Master
Joined: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 2254
Location: Minnesota and/or North Dakota
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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I don't agree with everything the Catholic church teaches. For instance, there are some that teach if you are not a member of the Roman Catholic Church, you can't be saved (and some other denominations also do this, like the Wisconsin Synod).
Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses I know are wrong. Mormons believe the book of Mormon is as much inspired as the Bible. And Jehovah's Witnesses are really wacky (IMO), believing that we are all 'sons or daughters' of God, just like Christ.
-Jonathan |
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EugeneFan
Webmaster of Eugene Forever
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 474
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I believe that what Catholics and Mormons believe is wrong, becuase those are two different religions. I don't view the Catholic church as another denomination, but a completely different religion. Both religious groups use doctrine other than the Bible, and their teachings contradict Christianity. |
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Arwen
Really Likes Personalized Ranks
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 1193
Location: The Middle of Nowhere
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Mormans and Jehovah's Witnesses are definately wrong.
Catholics are, for the most part, off, but they're still correct if they teach that Jesus is the only way to God, and that one must accept his gift and works come second. Some believe that, some don't. |
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Jeremy
The Great Debater
Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 448
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:05 am Post subject: |
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I would have to say that Catholicism, Mormonism, and Jehovah's Witness (along with Christian Scientists and Seventh-day Adventism) are all definitely cults. Does this mean no one in these organizations is saved? No. Does this mean they are false religions? Yes. They all teach varying false gospels of salvation by works (or faith plus works). They all have false prophets, extra-Biblical "inspired" writings, and/or extra-Biblical "inspired" authority. They all teach that they are the only one true church and that salvation is tied in with being a part of their church. They all have other heretical doctrines and cultic practices. They all match the characteristics of a cult.
Jeremy |
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Jonathan
Dungeon Master
Joined: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 2254
Location: Minnesota and/or North Dakota
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| Jeremy wrote: | I would have to say that Catholicism, Mormonism, and Jehovah's Witness (along with Christian Scientists and Seventh-day Adventism) are all definitely cults. Does this mean no one in these organizations is saved? No. Does this mean they are false religions? Yes. They all teach varying false gospels of salvation by works (or faith plus works). They all have false prophets, extra-Biblical "inspired" writings, and/or extra-Biblical "inspired" authority. They all teach that they are the only one true church and that salvation is tied in with being a part of their church. They all have other heretical doctrines and cultic practices. They all match the characteristics of a cult.
Jeremy |
I'm asking because for the most part I don't know, but how does the Catholic Church fit the characteristics of a cult?
-Jonathan |
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Jeremy
The Great Debater
Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 448
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:27 am Post subject: |
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They fit all of the things I described. If you would like me to try to explain in what ways they fit the things I described, I'll try, but not tonight. ;-)
Jeremy |
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Jonathan
Dungeon Master
Joined: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 2254
Location: Minnesota and/or North Dakota
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| Jeremy wrote: | They fit all of the things I described. If you would like me to try to explain in what ways they fit the things I described, I'll try, but not tonight. ;-)
Jeremy |
Yeah, that's what I meant. An explanation would make it easier for me to understand.
-Jonathan |
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Amadeo
Senior Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 1207
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:45 am Post subject: Re: Catholics Vs. Evangelicals |
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| MelkaAlyson wrote: | | Alright I got one for you. Do you think that what Catholics belive is wrong? |
Indeed, some of what they teach is wrong. Along with the Lutherans, Episcopelians, Adventists, Methodists, Baptists, etc. That is to say, I have yet to find a denomination with which I completely agree. But all of the above are Christian denominations, though I believe some have many more saved members than others.
| MelkaAlyson wrote: | | Mormans? Jahova's Whitness? |
These are cults, not Christian denominations.
| MelkaAlyson wrote: | | Evangelicals? |
That term is broad enough to encompass a variety of beliefs; my opinion is generally favorable.
| MelkaAlyson wrote: | | Who is right who is wrong ( on different issues/ subjects?) This is for you guys, i am not going to get in the middle of this unless i have to tell somone to stop being a nickumpoop. |
That comprises innumerable theological details. As I explained above, two of the groups you listed are cults and therefore discussing their redeeming factors is futile. As far as Roman Catholicism, I could not—in good faith—become a member of the Church because I have a strong background in sola scriptura and cannot believe in concepts that I see as either opposing or not existing in the Bible (papal authority, Mary's immaculate conception, assumption, and generally exalted position, purgatory, prayers to the saints, role of the priest, etc.). On the other hand, I cannot (Biblically) resolve the Calvinistic leanings of many fundamental churches either (unconditional election, limited atonement, total depravity, irresistible grace, perseverance of the saints—all according to the Calvinistic definitions). The closest term (of the ones presented) to describing my beliefs is "Evangelical" but even that is vague. Also, I dislike the title of this thread because there are Catholic evangelicals in existence. The two terms do not have to be opposed to one another.
Last edited by Amadeo on Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Coralfish
Town Hall Judge
Joined: 17 Dec 2002
Posts: 1790
Location: Southern Academia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| Jonathan wrote: | | For instance, there are some that teach if you are not a member of the Roman Catholic Church, you can't be saved... |
To reply to that simply: They are not in line with the mainstream Roman Catholic teaching. As such, it completely recognizes that those who are in other denominations (yes, denominations) can be saved. To provide an example, at our church we simply don't refer to the protestant denominations as being radically incorrect or even of another religion. They're merely referred to as "Our protestant brothers and sisters." Its recognized as being a difference, but not a cultish one, you see? That's why, generally speaking, Catholics and Jews don't tend to evangalize to other Christians. Why? Because they believe that they have found the truth in Christ and that, denomination aside, that is the most important thing. Ask any Catholic or any Jew. This is the case. Though some emphasis should indeed be placed upon the details seperating us, it should not become the incurable rift that seperates us from what is most important of all.
In short, Catholicism, as much as some would love to label it so, is not a cult. Catholics are Christians as well, though at times its often hard for one to convince people of that when one is automatically labeled as otherwise. Thus, I attempt to present the following questions in a way that is not pushy, but rather in such a way that you all can see where I come from on this. For those completely convinced that the Catholic church is a cult, let me offer these few remarks that may hopefully spark a bit of thought:
Do Catholics hold God to be the center of their life?
Do they hold Scripture to be the inspired Word of God?
Do they believe in commmunion with other members, and the building up of faith, family and community?
Do they believe that Jesus died to save us from our sins?
Do they believe that we sin, and therefore must strive to be better individuals, and thus grow closer to God?
Do they believe in death, judgement, Heaven and Hell?
The answer (excluding radical factions of individual-not endorsed or held to be in line with church teaching) is yes. How many such responses could you apply to, say, Mormans or Jehova's witnesses or any other cult?
As for everything else, I neither have the time nor the energy to debate with you all about all the issues/claims raised, but will probably occasionally comment, if this thread lasts.  |
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