The Town Hall Archives

titanking · Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 6:32 pm Post subject: North Korea

Please go to the attached address and read the article. I know many of you might not be that up with the news from North Korea, but this talks about the atrocities that are going on there. I was just wondering what some of your responses to this were...

http://msnbc.com/news/859731.asp?0cl=cR

marlene · Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 10:14 pm Post subject: N. Korea

World Issues 4U has been a pretty interesting course for those reasons.. we talk about things that are relevant in our world such as the war on terrorism, Iraq, and lately North Korea and the situation with their nuclear weapons. To be honest, I didn't read that entire article - pretty gorey (sp?) details... it's unbelievable that these things go on and we hardly know anything about it. I think it's time we become aware of what's going on around us, what do you all think? And when we know, what do we do about it, as Christians? Just some thoughts, and things we've been challenged to think about lately with all the world's events. What if Canada becomes involved with the war against Iraq, if and/or when there is a war? These are things to think about....
that's all for me now...
ttyl
(no i did not write 8 pages worth of a world issues exam today... yes, yes i did.)

mj

hawkeye · Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 10:17 pm Post subject:

It is a sad story, but after reading it objectively, there are a few problems that I see as discrediting the story, at least most of it.

marlene · Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2003 11:05 pm Post subject: ...

such as?

hawkeye · Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 12:29 am Post subject:

"That type of work is done under a high temperature, and my spine started to shrink. And my height became 120-130 centimeters. And I was treated just like an animal. My back became curved like a soccer ball, and the distance between my heart and stomach narrowed, and my shoulders, the bones stuck out. And I looked like a strange animal."

Not possible from heat.

"I experienced this atrocity during my prisoner’s life, for seven years I got only 100 grams of corn for every meal. I had no other food. Not even once. The corn cake, 100 grams, that is the size of one choco-pie. And they gave me one small cup of saltwater. If someone does not fulfill his daily duty, then the portion will be only half — 50 grams."

That little amoutn of food is barely enough to suatain life, not enough for anyone to do actual work, especially working around such heat (they would sweat profusely). Also, salt water is dangerous to drink. Humans need fresh water. Salt water causes teh fresh water in the body as well as the salt water to be flushed as soon as the body can, to attempt to rebalance the osmosis the salt water causes, and thus the body overreacts and flushes too much water, and you end up dehydrated.

"We experienced malnutrition, and when we reached the third degree of malnutrition, the worst condition, when we drank water or ate bread, it came out through the anus immediately.
In the prison there were rats, they are manufacturing leather goods and leatherwear, so there are many rats. When we could catch rats, we thought it was a fortunate day.
If we were found catching rats, we were put in a separate solitary cell. When we caught a rat, we didn’t cook it. We just ate it."

If the bread or water went though them that fast, there is not way their bodies got any nutrients from it, thus they would have suffered more malnurishment. Eating raw rats would only cause infection in an already infected body, and thus would make them sick. Also, eating rats would serve no purpose if it right through them...

Also, you body resists drastic changes in diet (like the rare rats) and doesn't digest the unusual food as well until it is used to it.

"And they hung me from the ceiling, two hands together and then beat me. Because of the heavy weight of my body, when I was hung, I have a wound on my wrists and the flesh removed, because of the handcuffs."

If she really was that malnurished and that tall, 120 cm (4 foot for Americans), then she would have weigh less than 60 pounds, and that is not enough weigh to cause scars. If anyting, her hands would have snapped at the wrists....

"The left side of my shoulder protrudes in a lump, the bone protrudes upward. And this side is hollowed because they tramped on me here."

A hollow area in the body from being crushed? Sorry.

"... when I came to, I saw I had a wound on my back and the large flies defecated on the bloody part and then sometimes maggots."

How could she see her back? No mirrors around...

"My heart was breaking because my only son and my beloved husband, they have no relationship to my imprisonment, but they had to go to a forced labor camp. And this type of system exists only in North Korea, nowhere else in the world.
At the time my only child was a university student, at Kim Il Sung University
....
My father was in a high-ranking position in North Korea, and myself I was graduate of the university, and I was a member of the labor party, and I didn’t suffer from anything before."

Either educated people are an asset or a threat. However, educated people are needed to come up with Kim's weapons... As for her child being a Christian, Kim probably tried hard to influence young minds.

"They tramped on me so strongly that my teeth were broken and my eyeball came out. And I put it back in the socket again and massaged it by hand for a couple of days. And it was swollen."

If they trampled her that much, her skull would be fractured, and she would have at least minor brain damage. Also, if her teeth were damaged as such, her jaw would have been broken, and the inside of her mouth would have been damaged by the loose teeth.

titanking · Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:37 am Post subject:

maybe it's just me, but at this point in time, I still kind of side with some kind of veracity to the article. First of all, while hawkeye's points do show that some things may be far-fetched, the way we understand what she is saying could have something to do with the interpretation or broken English that she is using. Also, some of the atrocities that occurred in the Nazi concentration camps during WWII were also believed to be beyond the physical ability of the human body.
Whichever the case, I do know that the leadership in North Korea has definitely left all humanity behind. The country is in chaos, and persecution of citizens from all over the country has been known to occur. The present leadership needs to be overthrown if there is to be any hope for the country. I believe this is why this woman addressed the UN and the US Congress in her testimony as she did.

marlene · Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 12:37 pm Post subject:

i'd have to agree with brent on this one... maybe there are a few flaws, but after all, are you a doctor? Just wondering... and who knows what effects could come out of severe beatings... can' tsay that i know.
...
that's all for now

mj

hawkeye · Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 10:26 pm Post subject:

Yeah. I'm not saying she is lying about all of it, but that there are those items that cast doubt, at least to a some of it.

And no, I am not a doctor, just a guy who likes science and has studied a good bit.

titanking · Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 10:40 pm Post subject:

i think one thing to keep in mind while reading it is that she's been through a very traumatic experience, and it's not surprising if she can't completely recall completely accurately every little detail. I know personally I would possibly be trying very hard to just block it all out if it was possible.

marlene · Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 9:08 am Post subject: