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The Town Hall Archives
Ahh, the nostalgia.
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rosie
Inquisitive Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2003
Posts: 1197
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 Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:24 pm Post subject: baptism |
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Things seem slow. I'll try to think of a new topic... lets see.... how about a debate? The Canada vs. America one was funny, maybe something like that. Something truly controversial. I got it!!! Baptism!!!!
Should infants be baptized?
Can someone be saved before they are baptized?
Are people who think you have to be baptized to be saved weird?
Can anyone think of any other questions?
OK, you guys. Start getting mad at each other, that's always fun to watch. With luck, this thread will turn into a war over denominations. Well, not a war exactly..... we'll just pretend to have a war to liven things up. *throws a tomato at no one in particular* |
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Gandalf
Cursor Always on Submit Button Member
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 876
Location: Desolation
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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This is rediculous. I refuse to get involved if that's the only reason we're going to debate it.
BTW, I think we've discussed this before |
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rosie
Inquisitive Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2003
Posts: 1197
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I didn't say it was the only reason. Come on, share your opinion! I'm actually interested in this. I don't remember anything like this before. |
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Jared
Cute and Cuddly
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 4672
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: baptism |
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Things begin to get interesting! Here's a debate that, while done before (a long time ago, before many of our current members arrived), never fails to get people shouting. And there IS purpose to this debate...
| rose wrote: | | Should infants be baptized? |
No. Baptism is reserved for those who have already accepted salvation. It is an image of the death of the old man and being raised unto Christ. In the Bible, it was reserved for believers... It has no meaning to an infant.
| rose wrote: | | Can someone be saved before they are baptized? |
Absolutely! In fact, that's what's SUPPOSED to happen! The Bible commands, "repent and be baptized." (Acts 2:38) Baptism is second. A few verses later, it says that those who received the Word were baptized. In Acts 8:12, people were baptized - after they believed. Baptism is only an outward picture of salvation, not a part of it.
| rose wrote: | | Are people who think you have to be baptized to be saved weird? |
I believe that they are incorrect, but I wouldn't say they are "weird" ... :)
| rose wrote: | | Can anyone think of any other questions? |
Yeah. Baptism type. Immersion, sprinkling, pouring?
I definitely say immersion. All the biblical examples of baptism are immersion baptism and the whole baptism loses most of its meaning when performed otherwise. Death unto sin but ressurection unto Christ only works when one is UNDER and then brought up. What exactly is sprikling supposed to mean? That one has a dirty head?
Sprinking baptism was introduced by the Catholic Church in about four or five hundred A.D. when performed on a powerful man who became Catholic during the last days of his life. The Catholics, believeing that baptism was required for salvation, thought that he HAD to be baptized... So, since they couldn't bring a bedridden man to a river, fountain or pool, they brought water to him and sprinkled it on him, deciding that this was sufficient. It didn't catch on as the norm for at least a few hundred more years, though.
Of course, baptism style isn't HUGELY important, as it's not necessary for salvation anyway. But you might as well do it the way biblically outlined and the way that has meaning, right?
Oh, and by the way, I've been immersed AND sprinkled. As an infant, I was "baptized" in a Catholic Church. Then, when I was about four, my parents accepted Christ and we got out of the Catholic Church (oversimplification of it, but I don't have the space here to give the entire story of how my family got out of the Catholic Church... maybe some other time  ) and started attending a Presbyterian USA church. They used the pouring method there and did it on infants. They were fine with my Catholic Church baptism, so nothing was done about it.
We moved on to a Baptist church after a while and I made the decision to be baptized right - by immersion. I was sprinkled as an infant, saved at four and immersed at eight. And I firmly believe that if I were to have died between the age of four and eight, I would have gone to heaven. I am glad I've been baptized right... that's important to me. But it's not all-important; the decision to accept Christ was.
That was enough. |
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Melissa
Junior Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, I will... :wink:
Infant Baptism...
Well, in my church, this is what is taught: the infant's baptism is more the parents commitment to teach and raise the child in the Christian life rather than their public commitment to the Christian faith. In my church we have confirmation which is exactly what the word makes it sound like. It is the child or young adult (ages 10- whatever age) making their parent's commitment to the faith their own instead.
However, I disagree with this. I think that any person who is being baptized needs to know what they are doing, and why they are doing it. Babies and young children are innocent, so there is no reason for us to be baptizing them. In my experience, most people who were baptized as babies think that they are saved and are going to heaven. This is not the case. Baptism is the public commitment of a person to their faith, so in my opinion no person should be baptized until they are saved. :)
If you can't be saved until you are baptized, then i don't see the point of baptism. You are making a public commitment by being baptized, so if you have to make the commitment first before you are baptized, then how can you truely be making the commitment after or duringthe baptism, when you really have to make the commitment first, before you publicly display it? *if none of that made sense, then please do let me know- thinking aloud is something i do well* :roll:
And I don't think I know anyone who thinks that you have to be baptized to be saved, so I really can't comment on the third one. |
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Mandy Straussberg
Three-year veteran
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 616
Location: Out West
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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Gosh, I was all ready to post about my opinions, but then I read Jared's post... my answers would be duplications of his... I agree with Jared! (I especially liked the dirty head comment.)
One thing I can add is that our Young adult pastor (Who's in his thirties) had been working at our church for a while. He was a completely devoted Christian, been a Christian for a while, but hadn't been baptized. Well, all the young adults told him he better get baptized or he'd have them to answer to. He was baptized in February.
Our church (and me) doesn't believe it's imperative to salvation to be baptized, but we do think it's a very important public declaration of our faith.
Mandy
P.S. I have been baptized (at age 11, by my own choice. My parents made me teach a sunday school class on baptism to make sure I understood it before I could be baptized) and I believe in immersion. |
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Melissa
Junior Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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And i didn't see Jared's post before i posted... but he said mostly the same things as me.
the immersion vs. sprinkling thing is one i never thought about... but i would say that immersion would be the better choice of the two (because it's biblical, and because it's really hard for the minister to hold a child, or for the person that's being baptized to lean over the font to have their head sprinkled) |
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Josiah
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Melissa wrote: | | Well, in my church, this is what is taught: the infant's baptism is more the parents commitment to teach and raise the child in the Christian life rather than their public commitment to the Christian faith. In my church we have confirmation which is exactly what the word makes it sound like. It is the child or young adult (ages 10- whatever age) making their parent's commitment to the faith their own instead. |
Hmmm... that sounds Lutheran.
I'm not Lutheran myself, but I've seen infant baptisms at the local Lutheran church. It was a very special moment (reminiscent of baby dedications held in my own denomination) and is like Melissa described above: The parents (and sponsers) were committing to raise the children as Christians. However, I have never seen infant baptism in any other (including Catholic) churches so I do not know exactly what significance they attach to it. Also, this particular Lutheran church is more charismatic than most having broken away from the ELCA (which is the more conservative branch) because it was too fundamental. So although I didn't really see a problem with the baptism I think Melissa sums it up well in this statement.
| Melissa wrote: | | In my experience, most people who were baptized as babies think that they are saved and are going to heaven. |
That is so true and I think that would be reason enough to avoid infant baptism so as to not lead the person astray thinking that they have assurance of salvation.
As far as my own church, we hold the same view as Jared and Mandy. |
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Mandy Straussberg
Three-year veteran
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 616
Location: Out West
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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Wow... great debate... we all agree... come on, where are the people who disagree??? Hurry and up and be a part of this so-called debate!!!
Mandy |
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Jared
Cute and Cuddly
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 4672
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, I know there are people at the Town Hall whose churches do sprinkling baptisms and baptize infants. Anyone reading this: if you're one of those people, jump on into the conversation! |
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